Batting out of order

Would batter #1 be called out as soon as he entered the batters box? Since the preceding batters either were put out or safety reached base they stay.

i'll give this a try. batter #8 is out for batting out of order. batter #7 and #9 stay where they are and batter #10 is next to bat.

#8 is taken off first and an out is recorded; #1 was the proper batter.
Next batter is #2; runner remains at 2nd

batter #8 is out and the proper batter is batter #1 because batter #9 became the proper batter after the first pitch was thrown to batter #8

Terrance Farrell

Just a Suggestion for how to think on this ruling. Remember the importance of the proper batter is for two things. To determine if someone is out of order and to figure out who bats next.

In all situations when you have a out situation the Proper batter is called out regardless of who actually batted. In this situation #8 is not the proper batter because the last legalized proper batter was #9. The person who is out for #8 actions would be the batter who Follows #9.

Hope to see more discussion on the other points here or a better description of how things are handled.

Dan

OK, here's what I ruled at the time.

#9 did bat out of order, however, the first pitch to #8 "legalized" #9's at bat. So, the proper batter at that point would have been #1. As soon as #8 finished his at bat, and before the next pitch, the defensive manager informs me of the batting error. Since #1 was the proper batter, he is out. #2 would then be the proper batter. #8, who batted in the wrong spot was removed from 1st base. The runner at 2nd base stays put.

The important thing is to recreate the sequence of events 1 batter at a time.

Oddly enough the offensive manager didn't understand the rule and filed a protest.

Tim

Sounds like the offensive teams manager hasn't read the rule book on batting out of order. I agree with Tim's execution of the rule.

I've been reading most of the old threads, and find this one particularly interesting and confusing at the same time.

It is mentioned that the batter 'proper batter' is out, in this case the batter who follows #9, the #1 batter. BUT, it is also mentioned that the improper batter, #8, was removed from first base in addition to #1 being called out. Now, it appears to me, that you have two outs recorded from a single batting out of order infraction. If you're not counting this as two outs, are you telling me that #8 was removed from first base, and everyone pretends he never batted? It seems to me that the proper method of dealing with this problem might have happended one of two ways. Either call batter #1 out, as the proper batter at the time it was addressed by the defensive coach, OR, remove batter #8 from first base, calling him out for batting out of order.

I'm having difficulty on following the logic for how this was penalized, and imagine more than a few others on here do as well. Complex batting out of order situations are among some of the most confusing situations we can encounter in a game, so I'd appreciate some of the more experienced umpires giving their thoughts on this.

Dan

The wording sometimes confuses people. in batting out of order there are several terms that need to be understood. This penalty also must be understood.

First the penalty. If a person bats out of order the penalty is:

1. The person who batted out of order (#8 in the example) His actions at bat are nullified. thus he is removed from base and runners return to the base they were at before he became a batter/runner. #8 is removed (not out) and runners return

2. The "Proper" batter is called out. The proper batter is the batter who should have been at bat. In the Example #9 was the last "Legalized" batter Thus the proper batter is the one who bats after him.

3. To properly rule on Batting out of order you must know who the last "legalized" batter is. Only when you know this can you determine who the "Proper" batter is and if there is a penalty. A batter becomes a "legalized batter" when he has completed his at bat, Once continuous play has stopped (as a result of the batter becoming a runner), and there is a play or pitch after he is now "legalized". Now you can determine the Proper batter.

Example #1
Using the giving example above. #7 Bats and becomes a runner. Now # 9 comes to bat. As soon as the first pitch is made to #9 or there is a play made on a runner #7 Becomes a Legalized batter. (whether us was the correct batter now no longer matters)

The Proper batter at this point is #8 Who follows #7 in the order. But #9 is in the box Either Manager may point out this mistake prior to #9 becoming a runner and We would remove #9 from the box (no out recorded) and Simply put #8 the Proper batter in his place. (With what ever count #9's at bat had incurred)

But in the example #9 becomes a runner #8 Comes to bat. As soon a pitch or play happens after #9s at bat. #9 is Legalized and the Proper batter is #1 who follow him in the order.

Once again Either Manager may correct the batter in the box as long as it is done before #8 becomes a runner or completes the at bat. The Proper batter would take his place in the box and keep what ever count that was on #8

But in the Example #8 Becomes a runner and gets to first base. His actions have not yet been legalized #9 is still the last Legalized batter. The Opposing Coach appeals to the umpire that there has been a batting out of order. There is a penalty now because #8 has completed his at bat but he has not been legalized. (this is the only time in batting out of order when there is a penalty)unless you consider having to take over in the middle of an at bat with a count a penalty.

The Penalty is as described above the actions of #8 the non legalized batter are negated (as if he had never become a runner) and the Proper batter is called out. #1

If #8 had been put out that and they appeal the batting out of order. That out would be removed(as if he had never become a runner or struck out) and the proper batter is called out.

If runners had advanced by the action of #8 becoming a runner they would have to return to the time of pitch base. If they advanced during the at bat but not because of #8s becoming a runner. They would get those bases.

Umpires and Coaches over complicate batting out of order its actually very simple. Ask the Questions in order

1. Who is the last legalized batter?

2. Who was supposed to bat after the last Legalized batter? This is the Proper batter

3. Is there a batter out of order or is the proper batter at bat? Many times The complaint is too late.

4. If there is a non legalized batter who is out of order. Has he completed an at bat? If not replace him with the proper batter. If he has completed an at bat and has not been legalized by the defenses actions then impose the penalty.

I hope this helps with your questions. Many times this question takes 30 to 60 min in a rules clinic discussion because people dont take the steps in order. Its simple but easy to make complicated.

Dan Blower

Thanks, that helped. Good thing my guys never bat out of order! :)

Dan B.,

Thanks for the clarification of batting out of order, this seldom happens but when it does can cause a problem. The questions at the end make sense I will continue to study them.

Larry Loeffler

Dan,

I have a baseball question for you. Batting out of order.

Top of the inning first batter is #7 and he gets a base hit. Next batter is #9 and he sacrafice bunts. We now have 1 out and a runner on 2nd base. Next batter is #8, but before they pitch to him #7 attempts to steal 3rd and the throw is late and he is safe.

My question is, can the defense still appeal that #9 batted out of order, or, was the attempt to get #7 out "a play" and thus nullify the appeal. Thanks for your help

This is an email I received. Lets post some ideas for him. I will follow with my interpretation (Rule 6.07 (b) pro)

Here's the rule

6.07b

When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise.

The advance to 2nd base by #7 is a direct result of #9's at-bat, however, the steal of 3rd base was not. The pick-off attempt at third constitutes a play for the purpose of this rule. Therefore, #7 stays at 3rd, #9 is out on the sacrifice and #1 now becomes the proper batter. (#9's at-bat was legalized by the attempted play)

If they had appealed before the pick-off attempt, #8 would have been out, #7 would be back at 1st and #9 would now be the proper batter.

In appealing a missed base, the defense doesn't lose their right to make the appeal if they attempt to retire a stealing runner. In that case, we don't allow the offense to initiate a play that then causes the defense to lose their right to appeal.

I'd suggest that we treat this the same way. If the offense realizes they've batted out of order, we can't allow them to effectively nullify the penalty simply by drawing a pickoff throw.

Adam,

the rule is clear. It doesn't matter WHO initiated the play. The fact is that a pitch, play or attempted play before the Batting out of order is made known to the umpire will legalize the last at bat, unless the play was a part of continuing action. In the example given, the implication is that the steal was a separate play from the original sacrifice. R1 was moved to 2nd by the direct actions of the batter, THEN before the next pitch, stole 3rd - indicating another play, not a continuation of the original. The defense's attempt to retire R1 is an attempted play. This act legalizes #9's at bat.

As far as the appeal play, the offense CAN initiate a play in order to "bait" the defense into trying to make the play before an appeal. If the play is a separate play (not continuing action) the appeal is nullified. If the play or attempted play is a part of the original play – continuing action – then the appeal can be upheld. The defense has a responsibility to know the situation as well as the offense.

I have to agree with Tim on this one. A play or attempted play eliminates any chance the defense has to make an appeal. It is up to them to know what is going on and appeal before the offense makes the steal attempt. If the offense is on the ball and steals and then ruins the appeal, good for them for a heads up play.

What if ~
Top of 7th.1st batter - #7 spot in lineup bats and gets on 1st safely.
Then, #5 spot bats. Sacrifice bunts, R1 moves to 2nd. Now we have R2, 1 out.
Next, #8 spot bats, draws walk. Now R1, R2, 1 out.
Now, before another pitch, the defensive manager calls time and informs me of batting out of order.
What is the proper ruling?
By now you should have the correct ruling ~ That the next batter should be #7......but he's on 2nd base.  Who's up?

#8

RULE 6.07

PLAY (6).

 Daniel walks and Abel comes to bat. Daniel was an improper batter, and if an appeal is made before the first pitch to Abel, Abel is out, Daniel is removed from base, and Baker is the proper batter. There is no appeal, and a pitch is made to Abel. Daniel’s walk is now legalized, and Edward thereby becomes the proper batter. Edward can replace Abel at any time before Abel is put out or becomes a runner. He does not do so. Abel flies out, and Baker comes to bat. Abel was an improper batter, and if an appeal is made before the first pitch to Baker, Edward is out, and the proper batter is Frank. There is no appeal, and a pitch is made to Baker. Abel’s out is now legalized, and the proper batter is Baker. Baker walks. Charles is the proper batter. Charles flies out. Now Daniel is the proper batter, but he is on second base. Who is the proper batter? RULING: The proper batter is Edward. When the proper batter is on base, he is passed over, and the following batter becomes the proper batter.