Appeal on a Walk

The runner cannot be forced out at 2nd since he was forced to "advance without risk of being put out" by the walk.  Only the runner touching the plate and the batter-runner must touch their bases, just like a base hit to win the game.

P.J. I disagree.  On a base hit all runners forced to advance must touch the next base to remove force.  Just like a runner missing 2nd, when appealed, is out and it is considered a force out.  If it is the 3rd out, no runs score (even on a home run).  So my question still stands - when does a protected runner loose his protection when he abandons his advance to the next base?

Loren I understand what you are saying, but the situation presented was where the game ending run crosses the plate.  Also, the runner can establish any baseline he wants to a bag until a play is being made on him, as long has he did not go into the dugout and abandon his opportunity to advance.  A walk allows the runner to advance without the possibility to be put out so there would not be a play made on him.  He is safe to go where he wants on the playing field and the game ends as soon as the run crosses the plate.  So I would not uphold the appeal.  

This is good stuff, but I don't see any rule references.  Have ya looked into 8-2 ?  Is there anything in there that might change your thinking?  Are you sure that all runners don't have to touch the awarded base making the appeal legal?

Loren: My call is, the run scores and the game is over as soon as the runner from third crosses home plate, and the batter-runner touches first base after the walk. The runner from first does not have to go to 2nd base, as he is not being forced out. Good topic for discussion.
Manuel Provedor Sr

I think we can agree that if R1 never moves to second after the batter runner walks, he'll be out. The question here is, why is he out, and in the case of a walk-off walk, does it affect the outcome of the game?

Questions for the group to answer...

Can a runner be called out on appeal for failing to touch a base he was awarded? (i.e. R1 is awarded third, but he doesn't touch second on the way)

If the runner doesn't complete a baserunning award, and abandons his base instead, is an appeal necessary?

Is abandonment by a runner a force out?

Take a look at 9-1-1 while you ponder your answers.

I agree with Manual and Adam.  The runner on 3rd became entitled to home base as soon as the fourth ball was declared.  The runner failing to touch second would be the third out, however, the run does score.  I read rule 9.1.1.

 NFHS rule 9.1 under Note 2 says "when the winning run is scored in the last half inning of a regulation game...as the result of a bases-on-balls...which forces the runners to advance with the bases loaded, the umpire shall not declare the game over until ALL RUNNERS have advanced to the next base.  Then take a look at Rule 9.1.C & D and the appeal play on the runner not touching second would negate the run scored.

Under MLB & Little League Rules -- Rule 4.09(b) reads almost the same as the NHFS rules EXCEPT, it only requires the runner forced to advance from third has to touch home and the batter runner has to touch first --- no requirement for the other runners to touch their respective bases --- so, under these rules, game over, appeal not upheld.

Also, factor in NFHS 8.2.6 J which requires an umpire to still be on the field for the appeal, under NFHS rules to be valid.

I have been asking this question a lot to umpires and have gotten a lot of answers and a lot of good feedback.  I agree with what Steve found and am happy to say I learned something.  Thanks Loren for starting such an interesting topic.

9-1-1c doesn't apply, since it covers "preceding runners" and R1 would be a following runner.

9-1-1 Note 2 specifies that you don't declare the game over, but doesn't prescribe any penalty for all runners advancing to the next base.

9-1-1d seems to apply, but the question I have here is if the runner not advancing on a walk is a force? The runner was awarded the base. I have the proper ruling as abandonment. The runner is out for abandoning all attempt to advance. That's not a force out.

What's troubling to me is that Note 2 is clearly intended to mean something. But in the case book, 9.1.1 Situation C has a bases loaded walk where the runner from second is tagged out after touching and then stepping off third. The ruling says that the runner from third "became entitled to home base as soon as the fourth ball was declared. Consequently, his run scores."

Under NFSH, see Case Book 9.1.1 Situation E - R2 is out on appeal at 2nd. It is considered a force out and no run scores.  So I still ask the question, when does the runner on 1st loose his protection to advance if he "abandons" his trek to 2nd?

That case play has the runner advancing to second missing second base. As I read it, he continues to third, missing the base. Once he passes the base, he's considered to have acquired it and the defense can appeal. But what if he never acquires it?

Consider the case of R1 with no outs in the first inning. BR walks, and R1 stops on the way to second to tie his shoes. Even if he never advances to second base, the defense doesn't have the right to tag second and force him out.

In the end game situation, if the runner stops advancing to the base, when do you allow the defense to tag him? Clearly if he advances past the base he is forced to and misses it, the defense can appeal. But what if he just walks off the first base bag and joins the celebration? Or takes a few steps toward second and stops? He has to be given the opportunity to complete his award without liability to be put out, right?

Loren

We may want to begin a discussion of what Abandoning your base is and understand that before we get too far into this. But here goes how I would have handled this and why.

When were the touch of a base is concerned once a player has passed a base they are assumed to have touched it when applying all other rules, unless there is an appeal at which time you would make a judgment as to whether they had touched the base or not.

This also it true on awarded bases. So for timing purposes the base is acquired when the award it made. In this case because this is an awarded base we assume (until appealed) that the runner going to second has touched.

The appeal of the base would determine it there is an out and based on that if the run would score.

For abandonment we would assume because or the award that the base had been touched. Thus R1 not continuing to the bag is not abandonment and should not be ruled as such in this situation. Because, for the purpose of the abandonment rule he had touched the base and the game was over. Thus he has a right to walk off the field.

If the game or inning had not been over we would have been required to call him out for abandonment. The game was over unless the defense appealed the missed base.

There is a technical difference here in when the game is actually over. If no appeal is made we cannot call R1 out there is no rule to support that. Technically the game is not over until the defense has exhausted their chance to appeal. Someone has already posted the ruling for when that would happen.

This opinion is based on the normal ways we have to look at base touches when awards are present. The spirit of the game would not allow you to continue this game unless the defense catches the problem.

I hope I answer the question of abandonment for you. A full discussion of what abandonment is can be started on another post if you wish to know more about that.

I purposely did not address the safe /out or run scoring issue as that issue is one that all of us should look up and be comfortable with in the high school, college and pro codes. Scoring a run or not is a basic umpire responsibility.

Dan Blower